Open discussion about ILM and the magic they create. Also VFX and movies in general. Anyone can post topics here.

Moderator: malducin

User avatar
By ShaneP
#34466
There is not another project at ILM right now that has me as intrigued as Scorsese's The Irishman.

Why?

Well, beyond the legendary filmmaker and cast, it is the challenge for ILM in creating photorealistic CG characters.

According to Scorseses' longtime editor, Thelma Schoomaker, ILM is working on young versions of De Niro for the entire first half of the picture:

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/sco ... 09938.html

This is no small challenge not just because it is an all-CG character but mostly because it is a young De Niro. We have one of the most classic portrayals with De Niro in The Godfather Part 2 where he played a young Don Vito Corleone as reference. That performance and the image of when he was younger is burned into many cinephiles minds. We know what he looks like at that age.

ILM certainly has their work cut out for them. I've said it before but this cannot, must not be another Leia or Tarkin ala Rogue One. That simply will not cut it. It must be better. ILM knows this. I dont need to say it but I just did.

This movie is the challenge for them. Succeed and ILM will have etched legendary actors as CG younger versions of themselves into cinema history. Fail, and they will never hear the end of it....including here at ILMfan.

This MUST work!

Fingers crossed.

8)
Last edited by ShaneP on Wed Jul 31, 2019 8:16 am, edited 3 times in total.
User avatar
By aslan
#34472
But it won't succeed. How can it?

I don't doubt that ILM will deliver perhaps the best example yet of digital humans. But even that won't be enough to convince us that we are watching these iconic actors as younger versions. The first thing we learn in this life is to analyse and understand facial features. I just dont belive the tech or artistry is there yet to fool our instincts in this regard. I'm expecting some heavy stylistic choices in the overall patina,texture and lighting to help the cg along in that first half of the film.

I would love to be wrong on this, and for it to be the next big leap. I just want it to not be an embarrassment.
User avatar
By ShaneP
#34473
I suppose that's the rub isn't it? We know they aren't 25 years old so assume some trickery must be involved. I hope it looks like some of the best Dick Smith makeup work ever and we just stop thinking about the artifice and focus on the performances.
By Kmart
#34474
You don't need to be 100% convincing throughout, I don't think. Going by the APES movies, there are some mixed results throughout, but you're still engaged and tearing up when need be.

I think this is going to be a case of Scorses doing his equivalent to the opening shot in STAR WARS ... maybe one of his trademark long walk & talks w/voiceover that 100% sells the de-aging on a variety of characters, dazzling and overwhelming the audience to the point they stop being jaded and get on board. Not every movie can pull off the opening of ANH, but that is the big challenge in my mind with this one.
User avatar
By ShaneP
#34481
That reminded me of how Goodfellas opens. Violence with narration so it sucks you right into the story. Then they go back. I wonder if they will bookend this film in a similar way?
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By ShaneP
#34743
I am most impressed with Pesci de-aging. Compare his earlier shot when he hands the phone to DeNiro to his later scenes. The earlier one looks like Pesci just a few years out from Casino with more graying. But the other shots later he clearly looks older and his face more drawn. . :eek: I didn't even notice it the first time. Then I went "wait a minute."

The movie looks good. And that final shot of DeNiro with no dialogue when he looks down and then back up.... :eek: Damn, they nailed his mannerisms perfectly.
User avatar
By vfx fan
#34744
The shot of DeNiro on the phone had a bit of uncanny valley going on, but other than that, I didn't notice much. And I mean that in a good way.
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By ShaneP
#34746
The shot of DeNiro on the phone had a bit of uncanny valley going on, but other than that, I didn't notice much. And I mean that in a good way.
I agree. But the one immediately following was terrific. And the one preceding both with Pesci was tremendous. I don't know if they are doing the same to Pacino due to his timeline not being as long in the story as DeNiro's and Pesci's characters.

ninja turtle:
"De-aging looks very good, better than Gemini Man"

Do you know why I think that is? I think it has everything to do with the actors giving such a good foundation to build upon. But it is unequal. One is DeNiro. One is Will Smith. Those are two different levels of talent. Because of that, ILM is starting at a higher level. They are working with DeNiro.
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By ninja turtle
#34747
i agree Shane, with a better actor, you have better results in the vfx. Could be wrong, but in the trailer i noticed a shot of Pacino from "The Insider " era , about 20 years ago.
User avatar
By ShaneP
#34748
i agree Shane, with a better actor, you have better results in the vfx. Could be wrong, but in the trailer i noticed a shot of Pacino from "The Insider " era , about 20 years ago.
I just mean that one guy is one of the all time great actors and the other one is Big Willy. And WETA's work does look outstanding but at the end of the day you are still creating a younger Fresh Prince. At one time, over two decades ago, Harrison Ford was set to star in Gemini Man. Oh what I wouldn't give to see WETA do THAT instead.

I also noticed some shots in The Irishman teaser of Pacino where his hair appeared grayer and he appeared a bit younger but I don't know if that's just what I thought I saw or if it was nice makeup or some of ILM's wizardry.

But whatever it is....it worked for me.
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By aslan
#34779
The latest issue of Empire magazine states that Al Pacino is de-aged in all of his scenes. That would mean that we are seeing ILMs cg version in the trailer, which I find astonishing. There's a brief close-up of his eyes in that trailer with no hint of cg.

I thought this was bound to fail with it's vfx. Maybe (hopefully ) I'm wrong.
User avatar
By ShaneP
#34781
The latest issue of Empire magazine states that Al Pacino is de-aged in all of his scenes. That would mean that we are seeing ILMs cg version in the trailer, which I find astonishing. There's a brief close-up of his eyes in that trailer with no hint of cg.
All of them? I wonder about that eye closeup. Would you even have to de-age the eyes beyond the wrinkles around them? Because if that is ILM, including the one of Pacino at roughly 00:23, then that is tremendous work.