Open discussion about ILM and the magic they create. Also VFX and movies in general. Anyone can post topics here.

Moderator: malducin

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By TylerMirage
#34298
Firstly, congrats to the teams behind the bake-off 10!
...
But I'm sorry, Black Panther beating out Bumblebee, A Quiet Place, Fallout or heck, even Rampage which didn't even make it into the bake-off 20 is a friggin' joke. :lol: Like, did...did the Academy even watch the movie? Spider-Man 3 called from 2007, they want their Raggedy-Ann doll final battle digital doubles back. 1996 called, they want their digital rhinos back. 2005 called, they want their King Kong green-screens back.

A Quiet Place and even just based on the trailer for Bee Movie, those two movies' VFX look straight-up tangible compared to the unfortunately cartoonish CG world of BP. I admit that it's a bit much to say this, but I was never truly convinced by any of Black Panther's work outside of Klaue's robotic arm. Meanwhile Fallout's blending of techniques , A Quiet Place's supporting VFX work and Bee Movie's combination of CG robots in real environments are loads more realistic.

EDIT: I'm a dope who can't read. I thought Solo was nixed from the list of 20, but I'm glad to see it's still on there.

Sure, you can argue that those movies^ don't "offer anything new", which seems to be a recent criterion for the Academy except when they choose to disregard it :roll: , but honestly, Black Panther didn't offer anything new FX-wise either. Suits? Ships? Cities? Jungles? Trains?

If I had to guess which five will make it out alive, I'd say:

-Avengers
-First Man
-Ready Player One
-Solo
-Marwen
Hey, I keep reading about how good that SHINING part is in RP1. The movie is streaming now, but I have no interest in watching the whole thing, based on the visuals from the trailer, so can anybody tell me roughly at what point in the movie that sequence happens? I'd prefer to just jump to that and watch it -- if it is that good, maybe I'll back up and watch the whole thing.
Can't pop it into my Blu-Ray player at the moment to verify exactly, but in the movie's 2 hour 20 minute runtime, scrub between 1 hour 10 min and 1 hour 45 min. I know that's still a hefty range, but it'll limit it. If you still see the DeLorean, you're too early. If you see MechaGodzilla, you've gone too far.
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By vfx fan
#34304
I saw AQUAMAN and BUMBLEBEE last night, both stunning as movies and fx showpieces, particularly AQUAMAN. The fact it's not in the bake-off is sacrilegious. It is one of the most beautiful movies I've ever seen, and probably the second best superhero movie of the year after INTO THE SPIDER-VERSE. Jeff White was the lead ILM supe, and the other main house was Scanline, led by Bryan Hirota. MPC, Weta, and I think Digital Domain amongst a few others had a hand in it, too.
User avatar
By TylerMirage
#34306
I saw AQUAMAN and BUMBLEBEE last night, both stunning as movies and fx showpieces, particularly AQUAMAN. The fact it's not in the bake-off is sacrilegious. It is one of the most beautiful movies I've ever seen, and probably the second best superhero movie of the year after INTO THE SPIDER-VERSE. Jeff White was the lead ILM supe, and the other main house was Scanline, led by Bryan Hirota. MPC, Weta, and I think Digital Domain amongst a few others had a hand in it, too.
Agreed. Mostly. Aquaman is better looking, but Bumblebee is more photorealistic. I mean, apples and oranges, but still. My reaction to the VFX during Aquaman was "Wow, these are some beautiful looking and dynamically choreographed shots", while my reaction to Bumblebee's VFX were "I've never seen something look so photoreal and tangible in such a bland, uninteresting shot".

It's just a real head-scratchet as to why Black Panther made the cut but neither of these two dig. :-?
User avatar
By ShaneP
#34313
I saw AQUAMAN and BUMBLEBEE last night, both stunning as movies and fx showpieces, particularly AQUAMAN. The fact it's not in the bake-off is sacrilegious. It is one of the most beautiful movies I've ever seen, and probably the second best superhero movie of the year after INTO THE SPIDER-VERSE. Jeff White was the lead ILM supe, and the other main house was Scanline, led by Bryan Hirota. MPC, Weta, and I think Digital Domain amongst a few others had a hand in it, too.
Agreed. Mostly. Aquaman is better looking, but Bumblebee is more photorealistic. I mean, apples and oranges, but still. My reaction to the VFX during Aquaman was "Wow, these are some beautiful looking and dynamically choreographed shots", while my reaction to Bumblebee's VFX were "I've never seen something look so photoreal and tangible in such a bland, uninteresting shot".

It's just a real head-scratchet as to why Black Panther made the cut but neither of these two dig. :-?

It's not a head scratcher. Black Panther is the latest movie Hollywood can rally around, forget the absolutely shiit character modeling in the final fight. There was literally nothing in this movie that stood out to me as Oscar-worthy. ILM has done CG cities before....and better. In fact, Black Panther's appearance in Captain America: Civil War was more dramatic and essential to that film.
User avatar
By TylerMirage
#34370
Given that [Black Panther]’s CGI has been received more divisively than other blockbusters on the list...
...I didn’t hear a single voter mention the film afterward...
Ooh, wow, cool! Digital jungles and waterfalls and mediocre green-screens! We'll acknowledge that it's probably the weakest entry in the list, but that's okay because MARVEL!
User avatar
By ShaneP
#34371
Did you pick up that other bit though about some tension between Marvel and academy voters? It is interesting because they have yet to win a vfx Oscar after several noms.
User avatar
By vfx fan
#34375
Good news: BLACK PANTHER didn't get a single VES Award nomination. INFINITY WAR got the most, followed by READY PLAYER ONE, I think, but I didn't finish counting.

Nominees for Best VFX in FX Driven Film:
AVENGERS: INFINITY WAR
CHRISTOPHER ROBIN
READY PLAYER ONE
SOLO: A STAR WARS STORY
WELCOME TO MARWEN

Best Supporting VFX
12 STRONG
BIRD BOX
BOHEMIAN RHAPSODY
FIRST MAN
OUTLAW KING
User avatar
By TylerMirage
#34386
Did you pick up that other bit though about some tension between Marvel and academy voters? It is interesting because they have yet to win a vfx Oscar after several noms.
Yeah, that's an interesting observation... despite the insane critical, financial and fandom-based success, it's interesting when you notice that the MCU (or even just Marvel films [and then in further by extension comic book films as a whole*]) doesn't get very much Oscar love at all.

(*Bar The Dark Knight)

Sound Editing, Sound Mixing, Visual Effects and Make-Up/Hair are the only four categories that the MCU has been nominated in, and unless I'm mistaken, there have been ZERO wins for them at all across 10 years of movies.

I don't know if we can chalk that up entirely to "tension" between Marvel and the Academy, so much as maybe, just maybe, the MCU entries aren't the gold-standard for filmmaking that some people make them out to be? ;)
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By ShaneP
#34387
Well, part of what makes it interesting is that the MCU films are worked on by hundreds of artists and craftsmen across numerous companies and organizations in film after film. The idea there is even tension at all is pretty surprising. It would suggest that maybe artists aren't properly recognized for their work.

But yes, the larger issue of the work itself....I have found the MCU films to be full of exceptional work to some shoddy bits and everything in between. In my opinion, aside from maybe the first Iron Man film, which had consistently great work at the time, the work in each film has been great to good to plain shoddy. Black Panther gets a lot of grief for its final fight digital doubles. The camera work during the fall down into the rail station in Wakanda gave me Spider Man-2002 virtual camera flashbacks. Whoever approved that at the production level should be embarrassed. It didn't look great in 2002 and it certainly didn't in 2018.
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By TylerMirage
#34388
Well, part of what makes it interesting is that the MCU films are worked on by hundreds of artists and craftsmen across numerous companies and organizations in film after film. The idea there is even tension at all is pretty surprising. It would suggest that maybe artists aren't properly recognized for their work.
Hmm. Me thinks you're onto something... ;)
But yes, the larger issue of the work itself....I have found the MCU films to be full of exceptional work to some shoddy bits and everything in between. In my opinion, aside from maybe the first Iron Man film, which had consistently great work at the time, the work in each film has been great to good to plain shoddy. Black Panther gets a lot of grief for its final fight digital doubles. The camera work during the fall down into the rail station in Wakanda gave me Spider Man-2002 virtual camera flashbacks. Whoever approved that at the production level should be embarrassed. It didn't look great in 2002 and it certainly didn't in 2018.
Personally, I would add Iron Man 2 to the "consistently great work" list, but this is kind of a whole other discussion entirely. But yeah, as a whole, the overall quality of the MCU's work is just on this steady decline. A steady decline that is sprinkled with highlights of superb work like de-aging, Ultron or Thanos. Their films are just bogged down with excessive, cheap looking CGI and I feel that's negatively affecting the final product.
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By vfx fan
#34389
Well here are the Oscar nominations in the most important category:

Avengers: Infinity War
Christopher Robin
First Man
Ready Player One
Solo: A Star Wars Story

I have absolutely no interest in seeing Christopher Robin. Can't stand those characters.

Slightly unrelated, but Solo was so dull, Opie Wan Kenobi omitted his "a Ron Howard film" credit.
By Bigjonr
#34390
How was Solo dull? I know each to their own but it was well acted, great story,fantastic action and goes without saying amazing vfx !but guess that's my opinion 😁
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By TylerMirage
#34391
Congrats to the nominees! :thumbup: I was 4/5 for my guesses yet again. Didn't think Christopher Robin would make the cut, but glad it did. Adds some nice variety in-and-amongst the WHIZZ-BANG-EVERYTHING'S CG nominees and the obligatory "doing it all for real but uses CG to enhance" First Man.
I have absolutely no interest in seeing Christopher Robin. Can't stand those characters.
What's it like not having a heart? I kid, I kid. ;)

Black Panther may have (rightfully so) not made it to the final nominees for VFX, but it did get nominations in the following:

-Best Picture
-Best Production Design (well deserved)
-Best Costume Design (well deserved)
-Best Original Score
-Best Original Song
-Best Sound Editing
-Best Sound Mixing

Yeah, okay, Academy... :roll:

There goes the argument about how the Academy only gives the MCU nominations in a handful of categories and no wins...
User avatar
By vfx fan
#34393
Well, Black Panther and Infinity War had very similar fx work, which Infinity War did better. But don't you know it's racist to not give it a Best Picture nod...to a white producer?

But seriously, it was not a great movie, let alone a Best Picture contender, though as a movie, I liked it better than Infinity War. I just don't think being the "first" black-centric superhero movie gives it a free pass.
User avatar
By ShaneP
#34394
Meteor Man was the first black-centric superhero movie. Vfx by ILM even! But, it made $10 at the BO so no one remembers it.

I really like all of these nominees. Like fx fan, I am not a Pooh fan, but Christopher Robin's vfx work was terrific and this deserved a nomination.

Great to see Solo nominated too. The vfx work was top notch and the movie itself.....well, it wasn't that bad actually. Surprisingly, I liked it more than The Last Jedi. I didn't see that coming but Rian screwed Episode VIII up so bad that Solo looked like a return to form. Still dont like the idea of a Solo film though but it happened and it wasnt bad and the vfx were great. The droid-cg/practical hybrids and the monkey pilot with a gymnast performing with cg enhancements. I loved the way Bredow combined new and old in new ways.

First Man....great film with miniatures and the same vfx/miniature companies that won for Interstellar and Inception, DNEG and Ian Hunter.

Infinity War....this film is notable for two things: the Wakanda battle and Thanos. Those were both very well done, especially when Thanos is on Earth.

Ready Player One....this movie was as empty as the book it was based on. Worth seeing for the Overlook Hotel scene from The Shining though.

My pick: same as before....First Man.
Last edited by ShaneP on Tue Jan 22, 2019 1:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
By Bigjonr
#34395
Yes Aslan, should we extend our congratulations to First Man now? It's that or Christopher Robin because the other 3 have one thing in common amazing effects but by ILM so it ain't gonna happen!!! Sadly predictable unfortunately.
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By TylerMirage
#34396
Congratulations to the First Man crew on winning the vfx Oscar.
:lol: On-point.
Infinity War....this film is notable for two things: the Wakanda battle and Thanos. Those were both very well done, especially when Thanos is on Earth.
Thanos and his Black Order were superb. But honestly, was anyone out there actually praising the Wakanda Battle for its VFX work? Serious question. People applaud the finale, but most of it seems to stem from the general "ooh wow cool epic final battle" or "such dramatic stakes"-angle rather than genuine praise for the effects work. Anything involving Thanos/Black Order/Hulkbuster was great stuff, but everything else was just generic "actors/digital doubles fighting a disposable alien army against a green-screen"-schtick. Like, there's not even much (if anything) to appreciate from the perspective of visual effects enhancing/being enhanced by practical on-set effects or miniatures. :e_confused: