Open discussion about ILM and the magic they create. Also VFX and movies in general. Anyone can post topics here.

Moderator: malducin

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By malducin
#6928
That was Santa Barbara Studios. In their defense they had to do it for almost nothing and just in a few weeks at the last moment, much like they did for the finale of Star Trek Insurrection, also at the last minute.
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By vfx fan
#6931
Mal, you mentioned that Santa Barbara Studios worked on some fx for "K-19," I've never seen the movie, but what did they do for the show? "K-19" is the first movie in a while that we've heard of Santa Barbara, I wonder what took them so long to work on another project.

Also - and this may be slightly off the topic - what happened to Digital.Art.Media (formerly Vision Art)? Did they fade away after "Rollerball" rightfully bombed? It wouldn't surprise me. I don't see why any fx house would want to work on a piece of sh!t like "Rollerball." That movie is rated R, which, in this film's case, means that it's only appropriate for people with IQs under 17! :wink:
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<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: vfx fan on 2002-08-30 15:31 ]</font>
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By malducin
#6941
Don't know what Santa Barbara did for K-19, did I even write that, LOL?!?! I just saw them listed on the credits and made a mental note of it.

As far as SBS and VisionArt remember that they are mainly post/commercial houses and for TV. For them film FX would be special projects, not their bread and butter. VisionArt was supposedely gonna launch a new website maybe a year ago or more but it never updated. Who knows.
User avatar
By dr.CGI
#6948
I never heard anything of ILM worked on "the last crusade". who VFX supervisor?
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dr.CGI
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By malducin
#6963
Michael McCalister supervised Indiana Jones. There were lots of stuff, from Donovan's death to a great deal of he zeppelin and ensuing plane chase sequence among other things.
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By Ahem
#6965
And the first ever ILM digital comp (already mentioned Donovan's death)!!

The invisible bridge was amazing in that picture.
Last edited by Ahem on Mon Oct 11, 2010 4:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
By splinebender
#6976
Last Crusade didn't come out until '89, the first digital comp that ILM did was in Young Sherlock Holmes in '85. Most of the comping in Holmes was traditional, but at least one shot (the out of focus glass sword in the foreground) was a digital comp using the recently completed, David DiFrancesco designed, Laser Scanner/Output system (now residing in the George Eastman House International Museum of Photography's Permanent Apparatus Collection).

The first digital wire removal was in Howard the Duck!

I think it's interesting that you like the fx in Crusade better than those in Temple. I'm just the opposite. I thought the whole zeppelin aerial sequence and divebomber attack was terrible. I was generally unimpresed throughout Crusade. Whereas in Temple I loved the river gorge stuff (covered in an excellent NOVA program on special effects). I loved the neat matte painting work and I loved the mine car ride stuff, with the converted Nikon photography and the terrific Tom St. Amand animation.

I dunno, even though there were things about the tone of the film, and the characters and so forth that I didn't dig that much in Temple, I really liked the fx a lot.
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By ninja turtle
#6978
you're right ,Splinebender ,i think that most of temple of doom 's effects are stunning for a pre-cg era .And they are better than ghosbuster's vfx.I don't know why Ahem hates them.
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By vfx fan
#6979
Ah, but were they better than "2010?" I don't think so!!!
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By Shane
#6980
I saw part of that NOVA documentary in a film class in college. I specifically remember them breaking down the standoff on the cliffs with Indy versus the Thughee guys. Nice behind the scenes look and more informative than today's televised effects stuff.

Ahem, McAlister directed the effects photography on Temple of Doom as well. He was also the one who converted the Nikon camera spline mentioned so they could shoot the mine car chase.

Overall, I think the Indy films had good effects.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Shane on 2002-08-30 13:08 ]</font>
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By malducin
#6987
I remember seeing something back then where they showed how they had to repaint Indy's legs because of where the matte line was. I almost had a heart attack, couldn't believe it. Was that NOVA?

Speaking of which, I finally gotten something to capture video to my computer. I might experiment about capturing some old shows and making them VCDs or something, at least for preservation purposes. We discussed that here some time ago. If I make any progress I'll report back.
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By malducin
#6989
As far as a digital composite from what was in one book (CG101 but might be the second ILM book) is that the Sherlock Holmes glass knight composite was partial. Like they created the layers digitally, the knight and it mattes, and did use the laser recorder to scan out those, but that the final composite (knight plus plate) was optical. I could be wrong though, and I have it on the FAQ. In that book it mentioned that Donovan was the first all digital composite, everything comped inside the Pixar. I guess it depends one how you define digital composite ;-). I'll check the books again.
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By vfx fan
#6996
I just laugh every time I imagine what the interfaces of the computers used to create the glass night in "Young Sherlock Holmes" looked like! They sure don't make 'em like they used to! :lol:
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<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: vfx fan on 2002-08-30 15:41 ]</font>
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By Shane
#6998
Just picture a black monitor with large keyboard. The monitors remind me in a way of those TV/VCR combos you can buy now. The stuff looks like nothing "off the shelf".

Malducin, that is exactly the part I remember! That's the one. Amazing eh? Ah, those good ol' animators and rotoscopers. Where have you gone Wes Takahashi? Where have you gone Ellen Lichtwardt? Bruce Walters?

We know where Tom Bertino is. :wink:

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Shane on 2002-08-30 15:47 ]</font>
By splinebender
#7000
Yeah, the bulk of the composites in Young Sherlock Holmes were traditonal optical composites (using Stained Glass Knight elements created with the laser scanner), however, according to Dennis Muren there is one true digital composite in the film (the shot I mentioned with the out of focus glass sword in the foreground). Apparently this was done as a digital comp because of the focus issues, but perhaps also just to test the feasibility of it.

About that same time in England, CFC was doing their first digital composite for a feature film. Nothing definitive has ever been published to really decide who's was first.

As for Terrence's book, it says on page 249:
"Young Sherlock Holmes in 1984, this was the first production to use the new machine (the laser scanner). It completed for the very first time ever a complete digital composite of a CG character onto live-action imagery."

Also, John Lasseter animated the Knight, and Jeff Mann is the guy who can be seen in some behind the scenes photos wearing a "tron-like" outfit for some movement reference that they shot for the Glass Knight. Jeff has worn many hats and is currently a manager at ILM.

As for Temple vs Crusade fx, I like both films well enough, and both have great work in them. I was being a bit harsh about Crusade, I just happen to like the work in Temple a little more. Mike McAllister is a talented guy regardless.

Yeah that Nova special is great, it covers that Thugee guard stuff on the bridge, and rotoing back in Indy's legs, as well as the baby aligators in the river. It also covers work from Jedi and 2010. It's the best documentary on fx from that era I've ever seen.
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By ninja turtle
#7001
speaking of ''temple of doom'' i'd like to know how they made the shot of the airplane crashing on the mountain.
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By Shane
#7002
spline: "Jeff has worn many hats and is currently a manager at ILM."

Is he still over the Art Dept. and effects and animation units? What would his job consist of?

He started as a modelmaker on Jedi I think.
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By boneheadfx
#7003
"speaking of ''temple of doom'' i'd like to know how they made the shot of the airplane crashing on the mountain"

I think it was a pretty basic comp on the existing plate-using the Plane model and and explosion element. Not totally positive though.

They did use a real nice model of the old Ford Tri-Motor airplane-good pix of it in the Lucas Archives book.
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By vfx fan
#7005
The scene in "Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom" in which the plane crashes into the mountain was beyond downright pathetic, especially for ILM. I can't understand why they couldn't blow up an actual model; it would have looked quite a bit more realistic. "Temple of Doom" was a major disappointment from both Spielberg and ILM. Definitely my least favorite of the "Indiana Jones" trilogy. And as Ahem would say, "SPI must've done that shot!"
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vfx fan

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: vfx fan on 2002-08-30 18:10 ]</font>