Open discussion about ILM and the magic they create. Also VFX and movies in general. Anyone can post topics here.

Moderator: malducin

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By ShaneP
#32018
Is that top image representative of the image quality of the bootleg?
Most of it is even blurrier than that shot....

here's another one:
Image....

the best 'clearest' shot, though, is probably this
Image

Do note that the green lighting is casted by the opening dimensional portal.
Ok the bottom one is the only one I can make heads or tails of. Is that foreground character CG or is that a person in makeup? I really don't know the Warcraft universe and have no idea if there are really any live action performers in the film.

edit: I will say that Legendary could have avoided all this hubbub though if they just would have shared the footage online. Seriously, Disney ,Lucasfilm and other studios have been open to using social media to market high quality footage to the online community.

This is not the best way to have fans get the first look at film footage….at all. First impressions are important.
By AspiringLagrangian
#32019

Ok the bottom one is the only one I can make heads or tails of. Is that foreground character CG or is that a person in makeup? I really don't know the Warcraft universe and have no idea if there are really any live action performers in the film.

edit: I will say that Legendary could have avoided all this hubbub though if they just would have shared the footage online. Seriously, Disney ,Lucasfilm and other studios have been open to using social media to market high quality footage to the online community.

This is not the best way to have fans get the first look at film footage….at all. First impressions are important.
1. To your question: That would be Draka, Durotan's wife....she's a female Orc and is COMPLETELY CG, which is simply amazing given life-like animation and facial expression.
2. I agree. Legendary and Universal Picture really shot themselves in the foot by not releasing something to the public. They do not have to let the entire thing out, maybe just teaser of the main Orc character, Durotan interacting with his wife would do, or the part where Orgrim chats with his Orc buddies. They showed the former behind closed door at Blizzcon last year....and those who got to see it claimed that it's a step ahead of any motion-capture shows so far, including Avatar.
By AspiringLagrangian
#32021
So that female orc is all CG? Wow. :eek:
Yes. Imocap of course. As for the male Orcs, imagine a Hulk that is not angry all the time.
Also, the leaked footage shows only glimpses of Draenor, they dying homeplanet (yes, planet) of the Orcs. Its sky is stormy, filled with greed clouds and perpetual strikes of lightning. Its land is dusty and gritty. It's a dying world. Imagine Mars with really bad weather. The Orcs go through the portal to Azeroth (homeworld to Humans, Trolls, Elves, Dwarves, Dragons, whatever you can imagine) -a lush and colorful world, a perfect place to begin anew.
Now the Azerothian scapes are a mixture of sets and digital environment, just like in Lord of the Rings. They used on-set motion-capture like Dawn of Planet Apes. The humans and their places are real. They reason they decided to go digital for the Orcs is because they wanted the Orcs to be able to express the entire range of emotions. The Orcs are supposed to be emotionally as complex of the Humans. There's no way they can do this with 5 tonnes of prosthetic and make-ups. Plus, they are big, bigger than Uruk-Hai in LOTR. They are not simply mindless-roaring mutated monsters.
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By ninja turtle
#32022
Aspiring, don't you think the mo-cap has some "floating" quality in some of the shots? BTW, i agree that the scene with the female orc entering the portal looks totally convincing. The shots that i found off-putting and that Imho have a video-game intro feel, were the ones at the beginning, with the orcs walking in that desert land, and the animation of that wizard-orc giving the speech.
By AspiringLagrangian
#32027
Aspiring, don't you think the mo-cap has some "floating" quality in some of the shots? BTW, i agree that the scene with the female orc entering the portal looks totally convincing. The shots that i found off-putting and that Imho have a video-game intro feel, were the ones at the beginning, with the orcs walking in that desert land, and the animation of that wizard-orc giving the speech.
1. On the 'floaty' mo-cap

The 'fodder' orcs seem to suffer from 'floaty' animation/mo-cap, I agree. As for the Orc caravan shot, I disagree. The animation might seem off to many people because they actually made the orcs move according their exaggerated, hulk-like body proportion, which I believe fits well with Warcraft aesthetics while trying to be realistic ( the game is even more exaggerated). Draka's animation is very human-like because female orcs are closer to humans in terms of body proportion. People didn't really complain about the Hulk when Avengers came out, and he moves and behaves even more comically in that movie than Warcraft orcs. Hence I think that weird shot involving Gul'Dan (the orc warlock) is okay once you accept that he's a stooping, decrepit black-magician of an alien race, and that's only a shot. Otherwise I think he's very realistic.

2 This should give us a better idea on what the finalized vfx is going to look like when the movie comes out more or less a year from now:
http://gfycat.com/WeakValuableAtlasmoth
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By ShaneP
#32028
It's funny people are complaining about the big orcs and their animation rather than the human-like orcs. I mean, that fugly female orc looked like a lady in prosthetics.
Wait, in that footage Aspiring Lagragian, Paula Patton is a human in the film right? It looks like in one shot she has orc-ish teeth.

This does indeed look groundbreaking.

And lost among this chatter is the environmental work, which looks amazing. Matte/environmental work is soooo good now. Damn.
By AspiringLagrangian
#32035
It's funny people are complaining about the big orcs and their animation rather than the human-like orcs. I mean, that fugly female orc looked like a lady in prosthetics.
Wait, in that footage Aspiring Lagragian, Paula Patton is a human in the film right? It looks like in one shot she has orc-ish teeth.

This does indeed look groundbreaking.

And lost among this chatter is the environmental work, which looks amazing. Matte/environmental work is soooo good now. Damn.
1. On Paula Patton: She's a half-breed, a result of Gul'dan's experiment at cross-breeding the Orcs
Spoiler: show
with the Draenei (another race on the planet Draenor).
She's promoted as a half human-half orc character in this movie, though. Not sure why -probably a retcon (which doesn't make any sense since there's no human on Draenor), probably something they'll reveal later in the movie. They decided to go for make-up with Garona, since she's human enough.

2. Yes, it does look groundbreaking. I mean, the Orcs seem to blend well with live-action environment and real actors...which is very hard to do.

3. That's another thing ILM is heavily involved in. They call digital environment work as 'world-building' in this movie, as most of the background environment is highly-fantastical and colorful, thus requiring them to literally build it piece by piece digitally. This is justifiable, since visually Warcraft sits at the very end of the high fantasy spectrum. It makes Lord of The Rings seem as grounded and muted as Game of Thrones. Duncan Jones has placed this somewhere between Avatar and LOTR in terms of visual. They built a lot of big sets as well, and Weta Workshop was involved in that and the props. The way I see it, It has more CGI than LOTR, but at the same time more live action element than Avatar.
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By ShaneP
#32036
I did the little flyover bit Blizzard and ILM released and the mountain backdrops and harbor city all looked pretty spectacular.
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By ninja turtle
#32156
Someone leaked a 40 sec. portion of the actual trailer and ,even in bad quality, it looks stunning. So much better than the comic-con footage.


O.T.Welcome back,aslan.
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By aslan
#32157
Thank you ninja, good to see you still here. I had not expected to be absent for so long.
Just to clarify my last post, i was being sarcastic about the boorish guy on the leaked footage. I belive those were his words. I can't wait to see some proper stuff from this.
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By aslan
#32301
Empire magazine has two pics of orcs in the new issue, one a close up face shot.

Oh dear

I don't want to jump to conclusions about the finished product, but I do not like what I see so far. The pics look like Imageworks vfx, massive detail but entirely unphotographic in nature. Very illustrational.

Maybe that's just the style of film they are making. Still, not what I was expecting. Or maybe the pics are not representational of the final image.
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By aslan
#32319
There are more pics floating around online, probably from the trailer. One is of the female orc already discussed here, and she looks amazing, so real and naturalistic.

Really hope this all comes together well. Trailer in six days apparently.
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By ninja turtle
#32321
I saw all the images leaked...i'm not sure they come from the trailer. I suspect someone has stolen the whole movie and is realising images online. Hope to be wrong...
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By ShaneP
#32322
I believe the footage is coming from the upcoming trailer. I too hope it's not the whole movie ninja as that would be a PR and financial disaster for all involved. I still don't get the long wait but that's the studios final call.

For so long personally it's been not about the rendering and look but about the movement. So many well rendered humanoid people look so amazing and then just…it doesn't move right.

It's like that female orc. She looked amazing…okay great. But she also moved with subtlety and looked like it could be a person in makeup. It's the limitation that sold me. If the orcs are going to be jumping and flying around…okay, well that's just not my thing. I'm not sold on that. But the female orc in that tiny seconds of footage…sold.

It's like The Hulk in Avengers 2. He worked so well when he was just standing there…or when he was staring at Black Widow and reaching his hand out to touch hers. The small is more convincing by miles than the huge broad leaping and wide gestures. Maybe that's personal preference? I usually like animation that's dialed back more than crazy or wild.

Just some of my favorite animation of films from the last decade would include:

Image Engine's prawns in D9. Still one of my faves. Loved that work.
WETA's work on Avatar and the Apes films with Caesar and the Baboon. Fantastic.
ILM's Davey Jones and The Hulk for The Avengers films. Amazing.
Image Engine's robots in Elysium and Chappie. Wow.
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By ninja turtle
#32323
Totally agree with you ,Shane, about the exaggerated animation riuning many cg carachters: some scenes with the Hulk in the last Avengers movie is an example, like you wrote.

About Warcraft: yes, it would be a total disaster if the movie will be leaked, it could destroy many careers. But those are the risks you take, when you have a movie completed for months and don't release it. I really hope those are images taken from tha trailer.
User avatar
By ShaneP
#32324
Totally agree with you ,Shane, about the exaggerated animation riuning many cg carachters: some scenes with the Hulk in the last Avengers movie is an example, like you wrote.

About Warcraft: yes, it would be a total disaster if the movie will be leaked, it could destroy many careers. But those are the risks you take, when you have a movie completed for months and don't release it. I really hope those are images taken from tha trailer.
Yeah compare The Hulk's interaction with Black Widow and the hands scene early in the film to the fighting scenes against Iron Man. Loved the earlier scenes. ILM really had a Ruffalo Hulk naled down like they did on the first film, but moreso. But the IM/Hulk fight was just too fast and too quick to make even any sense of.

I can say the same with WETA's apes in the Apes films. When Caesar and the Baboon are just sitting there and thinking, the animation is superb. But then you get all the apes swinging through the air and flying around and it just loses me. I know apes are very fast. They are that way in nature. But, sometimes the animation is too much. Too much movement.

About the delayed release of Warcraft: what can I say? It's been finished for a bit now I believe and they're just sitting on it until Spring. Time will tell if that was a good decision or not.