Open discussion about ILM and the magic they create. Also VFX and movies in general. Anyone can post topics here.

Moderator: malducin

User avatar
By Jedi
#24030
I'm seeing it tonight with my sister and friends in Spokane, but I won't have a review until tomorrow afternoon. I have to be up in the morning for work at six-thirty, and I won't be back from the flick till about three-thirty am.

Looking foward to the movie!
User avatar
By aslan
#24031
Saw it yesterday. Somewhat overlong and indulgent, like the first one, but still fun and fresh.

What to say about the fx? There are a few shots that don't quite come off, as there always is in these big films, nothing major though. But for the most part this is groundbreaking stuff. Davey Jones is the main effect and it is brilliant, the best character animation yet done. Totally photoreal to a degree I have not seen before. It's the new standard bearer and I hope ILM can maintain this level of achievment from now on. Imagine the dragon in Eragon with this level of realism!!

I get the feeling there are plenty of other fx in the film in various sequences, on the boats and on the cannibal island, but all so well done that it's difficult to distinguish.

If you didn't like the first one, this won't change your mind. But I can't see anyone not appreciating the fx work.
User avatar
By ninja turtle
#24034
it is not getting rave reviews from the critics, but looks like the general public loves the movie.


anyway here's the complete sfx credits for the movie :

http://www.montebubbles.net/

scroll down a bit and you will read the ilm crew: roger guyett is credited as additional visual effect supervisor.
User avatar
By vfx fan
#24041
Fuck the critics!!!!!

I just got back from it. One word: EXCELLENT! Way better than the first. While I thought the first film was overlong and boring, the second was riveting and imaginative. The fx were fabulous and their concepts were awesome. Can't wait for the third film.

Interestingly, Bill George and Roger Guyett are credited as additional vfx supervisors. I thought Bill George would have a bigger role on the film. Maybe George and Guyett are working on Potter 5? (Because it's Guyett's turn to play overall fx supervisor.)
User avatar
By Jedi
#24042
vfx fan wrote:Fuck the critics!!!!!

I just got back from it. One word: EXCELLENT!


I was going to write up my full review, but I guess I don't need to.

I was very, very impressed with the whole thing.I want ILM to get some due credit this year... at the Oscars, VES, whatever. This is, bar none, the best VFX work so far this summer. Yeah, M:i:III had the great invisible work, but when a show you know is going to be a big effects feast (1,000 shots... bit more than the first film!!) looks so good, is animated so well, and is composited correctly (something that ILM has usually seemed VERY good at), it make one very, very happy.

Ah hell, I even liked Zimmer's work with the music! Whoda thought that I would be saying that!
User avatar
By Shane
#24046
Biggest single day opening:

55 million

:eek:

Unless this thing takes a massive dive in the next few weeks, we'll probably see more than three POTC films.
By kofman
#24056
55 mill is incredible. :omg:
User avatar
By Ahem
#24057
Just caught it-

the first half is great, but then it falters badly half way, even becoming boring. The script and art direction abandoned the period observations and Port Royal grounding in favour of the fantastical, and it just wasn't half as interesting. Rick Heinrich's seems to have designed an over the top theatre production touring Hawaii as oppose to Brian Morris' work on the first movie, which was a copiously researched period movie in terms of art direction. The first movie was all about characters, pirates and adventure whereas this one is just an overhaul of superficial excess. Bill Nighy would have been far scarier without all of that distracting eye candy, endless loud tentacles, campy Phantom organ scene, and ILMs big stuff seemed heavy, obligatory and totally unrelated to the movie Gore Verbinski was making. Less is more was the success of the first film.

Movie's best moments are with the physical comedy (the beach scene with the chest, Jack Sparrow on a Kebab stick escaping cannibals, the water wheel) which Gore Verbinski executes with skill missing snce the days of John Landis and Richard Lester. Verbinski is the most interesting of the contemporary Hollywood directors out there and has a great old school studio vibe- it's gutting he didn't make the new Superman movie.

It seems the film had two directors: Verbinski making the character movie and then some visual effects director to dump in huge bloated effects sequences that don't help the story. There were visual hints and suggestions of Geoffrey Rush being a walking corpse in the first movie, but this one just thwacks over your head from start to finish that Davey Jones and his crew are rotting seafood. It's all just too much and too loud to look at and diverts your attention away from character and story when you really need to be involved in those latter elements.

On the plus side the movie photographically looked gorgeous for a super35 picture with an anamorphic blow up- it was pin sharp throughout, no soft shots. The big effects stick out a mile off as CG because they are always shot with wider lenses and lit up to a decent stop (to help the compositors more than anything) whereas the main unit footage is nearly wide open on longer lenses. When you've got an army of barnacle humanoids marching around all in focus fighting for screen attention in the same shot, it just leaves you thinking "so what?" and wondering why they are parading what the FX guys can do at the expense of story. ILM are at their best when they are aiding the story and Verbinski's vision with making the sight gags reality (the cages/Sparrows escape for example) and doing all the seamless chores (although my cinematography eye can tell alot of the invisible sky composites these days).
User avatar
By Shane
#24058
Saw it yesterday. Better than the first one,IMHO. Davey Jones was brilliant. I loved his eyes and just the way he absolutely looked like he was there. The rain on his face....wow. Great lighting and performance overall. Great villain.
The rest of the Dutchmen crew weren't quite up to his technical standards, but still very good. I LOL at the shell guy.

All the other stuff...the Krakken, sailing ships, destroyed ships, island village on the mountaintop, prison cages was excellent.

There were a couple closeup shots of Turner and Norrington standing on the water wheel rolling through the forest that looked a little "compy", but nothing huge. A few Krakken tentacle shots look a little sharp or something. Just small stuff.

Really looking forward to the next one.

Great job ILM and everyone else who brought this to the screen.
User avatar
By amygdalae
#24059
I dont think it's accurate to say that the director has great taste and would have made a great movie, but some visual effects director bogged the movie down with un-necessary sequences...

The director at the end of the day is responsible for all those decisions.
The art department, visual effects sups, and everyone else follow his lead.

Also, the movie was super 35 so that all the fx work could be done at 16x9 for DVD. The theatrical release is a crop of what will be on the dvd.
User avatar
By Shane
#24060
I dont think it's accurate to say that the director has great taste and would have made a great movie, but some visual effects director bogged the movie down with un-necessary sequences...

I don't know where people get the idea that fx people can make these autonomous decisions outside the director or studio.
User avatar
By amygdalae
#24061
Yep.

The look of the characters and the content of the sequences is pretty much hammered out by the director with the production art department and with his editorial department. Creatures may be refined once it comes down to actually building them at an fx studio, but it's really just tweaks to designs that are for the most part locked down.

vfx supervisors are involved with the pre-production art stuff too, but pretty much are there to support the designs of the art dept (i.e. - we can probably do the crab legs on that guy, this will be expensive but do-able, this might be hard to pull off, etc.).

Anyway, I thought Pirates 2 was pretty good, though it bugged me in the same ways as The Two Towers did to some extent (rushed and constant action to get things out of the way for the big finish in RotK) and Matrix Reloaded did very much.

Sequels shot back to back more often seem like a loooooong movie split in two instead of two movies that stand on their own (i.e. star wars, indiana jones trilogies). I think it turned out ok though. Critics get fired up about sequels and artistic merit of the sequels opposed to the first, the depth character development, etc. but I guess it is at its heart a popcorn movie. It's about action and spectacle... and it's based on a theme park ride.

My personal feeling is that studios should really chill out with sequels, marvel superhero cash-ins and re-makes and try to release some original content. I guess as long as sequels keep making decent money for the most part and people keep flocking to comic book movies and remakes, they'll keep cashing in. It kind of sucks doesnt it? You go see a movie with a guy wearing a red shirt and it does well, so they sequel that movie 2 or 3 times and then every other studio comes out with a red shirt guy movie. Seems like 'creative execs' really have no idea what people want to see and just go by statistics and focus groups more than ever.

I dont see it changing any time soon, but whutryougunnado, eh?

Hopefully some new talent will push their way through and get some original movies made and hopefully fire up some kind of shift a little more towards that direction.
User avatar
By Shane
#24063
Yeah, I enjoy Pirates 2 for what it is: a fun ride with bits of character and story thrown in.

You mention sequels. Look at what the big ones next summer are already set up to be:

Spidey 3
Pirates 3
Shrek 4

Maybe that's why many are anxious about Cameron's Avatar ?
Aside from his penchant for technical innovation and visual spectacle, it's his own story and people want to see more of that.

edit
Of course I say that and yet Cameron himself says hed like to turn Avatar and Battle Angel into trilogies. :lol:

Still, Avatar is, at least as far as I know, an original story. Let's hope it doesn't have any Harlan Ellison moments. :wink:
User avatar
By Ahem
#24065
.
Last edited by Ahem on Mon Oct 11, 2010 5:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
By Ahem
#24066
amygdalae wrote:Hopefully some new talent will push their way through and get some original movies made and hopefully fire up some kind of shift a little more towards that direction.


We need an early 70s style new hollywood revolution with characters and story.
User avatar
By ShaneP
#24067
Just take that mortifyingly unfunny headless corpse sequence at the end which was the kind of animator showreel jerk-off fodder seen in The Mummy movies laid right next to the hilarious stuff with the water wheel and the beach. It just looked boring and wasn't in any way comparably funny (let alone witty).

Audience I saw it with laughed their asses off at that headless hermit-crab guy. [insert sarcasm here]Then again, I was with a theatre full of God-fearing,Nascar-addicted, stupid common people.[withdraw sarcasm here] :-?

Ahem, the '70's are over. That kind of filmmaking won't happen again from the major studios. The whole reason the bosses in the '70's did what they did was because they'd lost most of their audience to television and the majors had gutted their own in-house departments and exclusive contracts. They needed something new. That's why Lucas had to start ILM.....there wasn't a studio run department that could handle it.

If it does happen, it will come from the outside and possibly even from another medium or delivery system. The system was changed by the 60's filmmakers......and the system changed them. They lost what it was they'd originally gone into the business wanting to do because they won.

edit
Inserted sarcasm meter
Last edited by ShaneP on Mon Jul 10, 2006 6:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
By Kmart
#24069
ShaneP wrote:Just take that mortifyingly unfunny headless corpse sequence at the end which was the kind of animator showreel jerk-off fodder seen in The Mummy movies laid right next to the hilarious stuff with the water wheel and the beach. It just looked boring and wasn't in any way comparably funny (let alone witty).

Audience I saw it with laughed their asses off at that headless hermit-crab guy. Then again, I was with a theatre full of God-fearing,Nascar-addicted, stupid common people. :-?

Ahem, the '70's are over. That kind of filmmaking won't happen again from the major studios. The whole reason the bosses in the '70's did what they did was because they'd lost most of their audience to television and the majors had gutted their own in-house departments and exclusive contracts. They needed something new. That's why Lucas had to start ILM.....there wasn't a studio run department that could handle it.

If it does happen, it will come from the outside and possibly even from another medium or delivery system. The system was changed by the 60's filmmakers......and the system changed them. They lost what it was they'd originally gone into the business wanting to do because they won.


If they'd 'won' wouldn't GL have been doing those arthouse experimental movies for the last 30 odd years? Or is your point that he couldn't pursue that because of the nature of the business? If so, that isn't much of a victory. If they'd won, wouldn't the studio system itself been entirely dismantled (in a way it was, but with even more corporate minded morons stepping in instead of artist types?)

As for GL needing to start ILM to make SW ... if he'd been willing to work with Trumbull instead of dictate to him, I bet he wouldn't have needed to form ILM to make SW ... and I bet SW would have looked better than it did.

Back to the other point about PIRATES ... just cuz audiences howl doesn't make something really funny in my book, anymore than making a billion bucks makes a movie something good (or even watchable ... I've still only managed to see maybe 20 or 25 minutes of TITANIC.) The Data 'oh shit' line in GENERATIONS is probably a bigger in-theater laugh than just about anything this side of the dog farting in SUDDEN IMPACT in my memory, and pitched at the same dumbass level. I'm still looking forward to seeing PIRATES 2 (probably next weekend), but I'm glad I don't have totally over the top expectations (especially since I just rewatched the first one last week, along with SWASHBUCKLER.)
User avatar
By ShaneP
#24070
Kmart
Or is your point that he couldn't pursue that because of the nature of the business?

That's my point. And it's not much of a victory because that's the way it turns out with utopian revolutions.

Kmart
If so, that isn't much of a victory. If they'd won, wouldn't the studio system itself been entirely dismantled (in a way it was, but with even more corporate minded morons stepping in instead of artist types?)

They wanted to dismantle it at first but really just ended up replacing the earlier conservative regime with their own.....themselves.

Did Lenin give the land back to the peasants or did the revolutionary proletarian guard replace one corrupt system with another?

Utopias only get you so far and the consequences can have the opposite intented effect.

Kmart
As for GL needing to start ILM to make SW ... if he'd been willing to work with Trumbull instead of dictate to him, I bet he wouldn't have needed to form ILM to make SW ... and I bet SW would have looked better than it did.

I think Trumbull had his hands full on another little film....with UFOs and stuff.

Kmart
just cuz audiences howl doesn't make something really funny in my book, anymore than making a billion bucks makes a movie something good (or even watchable ... I've still only managed to see maybe 20 or 25 minutes of TITANIC.)

No, but I laughed. Ahem is apparently above that kind of silly humour....that's why he said it was designed for "Jerry's audiences".
User avatar
By boneheadfx
#24071
fgn trrf,m m
mccccccccccccccccccmmmm,sk......... hfnbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbb

(Dang! I was editing and my cat walked across the keyboard. :silly: )
Last edited by boneheadfx on Wed Jul 12, 2006 10:27 am, edited 1 time in total.